Ha!

Posted by Fetsur on 2008-09-11 11:58:27
Well....
I liked Pre-BND Spider-Man ALOT better than Post OMD/current BND Spider-Man.

Loved the relationship he had with MJ (for which I had always known Spidey for having), and I especially enjoyed his increased powers.

Posted by Aziroth on 2008-09-11 12:47:45
Rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant rant!

Posted by MoriartyL on 2008-09-11 13:00:50
Oh wait, you might actually be serious. :) Sorry about that. Brand New Day is fun, One More Day is not.

Posted by MoriartyL on 2008-09-11 13:02:01
I'm supposed to pick one?
Well, I love where we are now - I just didn't care for how we got here. BND gets my vote, if that's what we're doing.

Posted by pmpknface on 2008-09-11 13:06:31
How 'bout One More Day with a different ending?

Posted by aspman on 2008-09-11 14:00:45
Grr, anger, snarl, rant, rend, tear, snarl some more, Hul--Mephisto is the strongest one there is!

Posted by cjmcaree on 2008-09-11 14:32:12
I concur with aspman and pmpknface
First of, great to have a focus blog on the most important character at marvel.

Now, I agree with the sentiments that where we are now is not the worst place to be. I believe that the "New ways to die" storyline is a par with some of the above average writing that occurred pre-OMD/BND.

However, the central issue is how we got here. The end will not justify the means in my opinion.

Simply from a logistical standpoint, there are to many loose-ends.

I also argue that Spider-man has lost a big part of his soul, and he did it voluntarily. The ending of the marriage could have played out in many ways. In addition, the unmasking could have been resolved by means other than dealing with the "devil". For example, the Peter that unmasked himself could have been a skrull, and the real Peter was...who knows, locked up or whatever. You guys are far more creative than I and I have no doubt that the lack of creativity depicted in a simple "it was magic" scenario that played out was brought upon by frustration from the higher ups.

This spider-man does NOT have to be married. However, a more sensible end of the marriage would have provided, at the very least, a more sensible connection with who this spider-man was in that parallel universe.

Now, what can be done about it?

Publish both in '09

Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-09-11 15:45:56
What if?
BND never happened?

By the way, to specifically address the topic here:

I dislike OMD more because it brought BND into fruition.

But that's like saying, don't be made at Adolf, it was Mrs. Hilter's fault for giving birth to him.

Listen, either way its bad.

Publish both in '09


Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-09-11 15:56:45
Writer driven stories with Slott/Guggenheim/Waid/Kelly > Editorial-driven stories that the writer doesn't even really agree with.

That said, still making the best of a stupid situation.

Also, who do I have to petition for you guys to hire Roger Stern as a consultant just so he gets in on the e-mail threads. Really, how in the wide world of everything could that possibly be anything but a good idea?

Posted by MattDiCarlo on 2008-09-11 16:16:00
BND is much more fun but it would bu much more awesome if MJ was still Peter's wife AND May still knew Peter's identity. JMS's take on May was the best IMO.

OMD did suck yes, but just because the story put Spider-Man in a place he didn't belong to. Mephisto and deals with the devil? It isn't a good deus ex machina for a Spider-Man story, even though I think that him accepting the deal was the best choice. To all people who say that Spider-Man wouldn't make a deal with the devil; think again, would he just let someone die? No he wouldn't; no matter who that dying person is, his (yes, very old) aunt, an innocent bystander or a complete stranger; he would save that person no matter what.

Posted by tusbat on 2008-09-11 17:14:43
Whoa
That is a question I had not even begun to contemplate, yet it is central to what happened in OMD:

Would Spider-man let someone die?

I had to put my Contract Law book down for a moment.

I have a hard time answering this question. At first without much thought I would say "No, he would not."

However, the means to which he would prevent someones death are limited by that very question. Its the same as that old philosophy professor's favorite question of sacrificing one life to save another...one life to save five?

As far as the means to save a life or rather prevent one from dying, I thought it was in character for him to find everyone he could who had some power to save Aunt May...even Doctor Doom.

But ask yourself what line do you draw to say I will not sacrifice [insert thing that you will not sacrifice] to save a life?

Just to go on a tangent for a moment:

Peter Parker had a somewhat unique way of seeing how things were connected in the word, not stopping the burglar at the wrestling match allowed that burglar to go on and shoot Uncle Ben.

Peter's logical conclusion was to blame himself for Ben's death because he did not stop the burglar at that brief point in time. This reason for Ben's death was held above all other possibilities that could have prevented Ben's death. Why not the fact that the burglar was a sociopath? Why not blame the policeman who chose not to shoot the burglar as he was running down the hallway, or the police's failure to catch the burglar between the time he left that venue and ultimately shot Ben?

There's a high level of self-loathing that really torments Peter and it may be a bit misguided. Of course this is the motivation that makes him become Spider-man.

Peter, dealing with a remorse that has both gilded and plagued him since he was 15 has often clouded his judgment to what is ultimately right.

Again, he connects the potential death of his Aunt with something he believes he voluntarily did, the unmasking.

Did he pull the trigger? Did he hire a hitman to shoot his Aunt?

No, of course not. Just as he didn't kill Ben, he didn't kill May. The world he lives in killed them. The Marvel Universe is a sad and twisted place where the heroes, with all their victories, are always the underdog.

The guilt he has is the bad side of the coin of who he is. Yet he doesn't exist without that otherside of the coin.

So in a much more complicated line of reasoning, I cannot change my answer.

I believe he would sacrifice all the happiness he could hope to have in his life because of that burden, that self-loathing, and roundabout sense of responsibility to everyone other than himself.

HOWEVER...

The product of what came out the other side is no longer that person so beautifully tormented and righteous.

I'm not so sure that this Peter would have even made the same deal as the real Peter did.

All of this happened at the snap of a finger.

That is where I target my criticism, the ease at which he became this un-Peter Parker.

There could have been a long journey of self discovery where he lost everything in personal life anyway, but realized it wasn't his fault.

There could have been far more rational solutions to resolving Aunt May and the unmasking. It would have taken some time but there is always a way.

A deal with Mephisto was too cheap and easy, and that, I believe is what is truly inexcusable.

I believe at this point I can no longer question whether or not the original Peter Parker would make this deal. I thank 'tusbat' for posing that question.

But I will never retract my complaints for the method at which the storyline played out and the product that is this un-Peter Parker who just forgets the part of him that was molded by his marriage to Mrs. Parker.

She was the other side of that coin. The muse that gave him humor and joy for life. This is the sharp contrast to the burden he felt from his responsibility. That part of him took 45 years to develop and was ripped away with the snap of a finger, and now this character, though more jovial than the original Peter Parker, is simply a caricature of Spider-man.

My objection will continue.

Publish both in '09

Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-09-11 19:14:36
This is hilarious, some of you don't even get it and fell in the trap anyways.

Like clockwork, they all came out of the woodwork to wave their fingers around.

Very funny, Steve.

Get back to work, dude, I better not be missing an ASM issue next year becuase you guys are poking the internet bears with a stick. :)

Posted by Dr. Chaos on 2008-09-11 19:24:00
Just to make myself clear...
I am not among the ranters, and I did explain that I preferred the Pre-OMD Spider-Man to the Post BND Spider-Man, but no where in the context of my first post did I say I hated the new Spider-Man.

Can't hate something I don't read. I just prefer the old Spider-Man because he had cooler powers, and was able to go toe-to-toe with some of the big leagues.

Posted by Aziroth on 2008-09-11 19:37:10
can i get in on this too?
MBL vs. NFL! Obama vs. McCaine! John Stewart vs. Stephen Colbert! Me vs. Steve Wacker!

in case you were wondering, the answers are nfl, obama, tie, and ill let steve win as long as he lets me join the spidey brain-trust

Posted by cryhavok01 on 2008-09-12 09:34:57
I dont get it
Are you asking witch is better/worst? I need more than 'OMD vs BND'

Posted by sickboy_ukuk on 2008-09-12 09:57:43
I just wish the first trade would come out
so I can give it a try. I'm already spending too much each week on comics that I like without adding a thrice monthly title to my list that I have doubts about. It's going to have to be pretty special to get back in my good graces.

Posted by izzatrix on 2008-09-12 10:44:58
Test, huh?
The answer is C. It's always C.

Posted by friskydingo on 2008-09-12 11:41:20
"A deal with Mephisto was too cheap and easy, and that, I believe is what is truly inexcusable."
"But I will never retract my complaints for the method at which the storyline played out and the product that is this un-Peter Parker who just forgets the part of him that was molded by his marriage to Mrs. Parker."

this is the most logical criticism i've read since OMD. as someone who likes BND, i suggest mr. wacker and the brain trust to solve these issues. the deal with the devil, doesn't work; it was cheap and inappropriate. a final confrontation between mj, peter and mephisto should put an end to this. peter should remember what he lost (along with the daughter he'll never have - an excellent torment). in the end you can either unite peter and mj; or just kill mj off. having mj around (but not with peter) after what she said (we'll be together again) is not only cruel but also disappointing. while you're at it reverse may to his JMS self, i know it's not like the developments under JMS's run didn't happen, but having her forgetting all those is really terrible. i hope ASM 600 will resolve some of these if not all.

Posted by tusbat on 2008-09-12 13:10:22
It's like Islam vs Christianity. Everything up to ASM #289 is the Old Testament. One More Day is Revelations. But it's a f***ing fictional character, not a religion - so get over it.

Posted by Fetsur on 2008-09-12 15:53:31
Some choice
This is akin to choosing between Porky's 2 and Police Academy 4.

Posted by Motumbo on 2008-09-13 19:59:22
No contest
Citizens on patrol!!!!

Let's be clear, that movie had skateboarding, cool musical intro, hot-air balloon chase, david spade before he got old, and old ladies with "magnum force."

Dude,

Lets be real.

By the way,

Publish both in '09

Posted by coolhanddave on 2008-09-14 20:00:00
You know I once had a event they called "The
I refer to it more as my brother's sex life turning into my slave labor, but here it goes.

In my adult life......
Free babysitting of his-my brother's- children assumed manditory while I was pregnant myself and not allowed contact with the father of my child because we are both white and it did not please my brother's atheletic needs to rub elbows with people only he wanted as close contacts who were not white.....plus if I was important, I should have had a home with the father, but I am thinking men of my generation have no chance to create, keep or maintain a home for thier children and a heterosexual spouse, not always by choice, but maybe by force of thier elder peers or relatives.

Not good.

That is why I am still single, deemed useless as a generation and probably the only person in my family not inclinded to practice incest over honesty.

???

Not good...........

Posted by Celestial on 2008-09-15 23:29:28
another test.......
It may be that my brother's half relatives are married to "Vicki Babbit" as she may be known as "Vicki Babbit-Cox" and "Edgar Hayden" who resembles "Robert Cox".???

Not good.

I do not keep contact with my mother's half relatives, but was only recently made aware of the problem since it has been posted on the NBC KNDU news and it links to a 1972a.d. murder in the state of Oregon, USA.

Not good.

:)



Posted by Celestial on 2008-09-15 23:31:43
This may also be the test.....
Apparently when you are pregnant with a white mans children they throw you in a field of agriculture immigrants and force you to pick produce from a open field lacking places to urinate and deficate and seek some time to enjoy your pregnancy....not good.

:)



Posted by Celestial on 2008-09-15 23:45:36
neither of them
I´ll go with neither. OMD erased an 20 years of continuity and BND was fruit of the first.

Posted by claudio pahl on 2008-09-16 14:01:52
Both of them caused me to stop reading Spider
OMD and BND have caused me to stop collecting Spider-Man after a 30+ year run. The whole thing is insulting.

Peter Parker would never make a deal with the devil. The whole premise of him selling his marriage to the devil and the devil having the power to rewrite history is cheap, insulting and stupid. You threw away 30 years of rich history. Yes, some days were better than others, but we stood by you, even during the bad issues.

No more.

You lost me.

Get rid of this garbage and we'll come back.

But not until then.

Posted by HiddenVorlon on 2008-09-19 03:04:10